AntiCult Discussion #1 - Desteni & other beliefs - Parts 1, 2 & 3

antidestenimovement

Parts 1, 2 & 3 of the discussion about Desteni between XfinksX, FreeSpeech4tw & RobertWLester.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

>>> Parts 4 - 10

check out these channels:

http://www.youtube.com/user/FreeSpeech4tw

http://www.youtube.com/user/XfinksX

http://www.youtube.com/user/AntiDesteniMovement

http://www.youtube.com/user/robertwlester

Does Desteni Equality = Equality?

Ivan Rauscher

According to Desteni, 'equality' means no diversity, no tolerance, no free speech, no belief, no emotions, feelings or thoughts. It also involves becoming at one with inanimate objects. Under the heading, Equality and Oneness at wiki.destonians.com, Destonians recommend that the reader should watch videos of Sunette Spies being a camera lens, a pillow, a panty liner, a gas pump etc in order to gain a

perspective in understanding that that which exist, even the very keyboard you type upon – is no different to you, and thus it is to establish oneness and equality within and as all that exist within and as you as ‘who you are’ here in every moment of breath

Destonian, Joe Kou has not missed this essential part of the teachings of Destonianism. At his 'Bringing Forth World Equality' blog, Kou asks Are Rocks Life? Are Rocks as Important as Humans?...

If we actually care that much about surviving, then we need to get busy considering what actually is keeping us alive here right now. Which is this planet and nature. Without these functioning properly and being utilized effectively, the human cannot exist. Thus the human is no better than the animals, nature, even rocks. Have a look around and see if there is any concrete nearby, there is probably some in your house somewhere, or a building nearby. What’s concrete made of? Crushed rocks. It’s used in many homes as an effective building material for humans to live in. The home I live in now is constructed mostly from concrete. And the very ground we walk on has rock as in its structure. It’s used within roads to transport goods and materials that we utilize. Some animals even require to eat small rocks to aid with their digestion, like chickens, and those animals play an important part in our food chain.

While they are busy considering themselves as equal in status to inanimate objects, some persons utilising the Desteni material also seem to be under the impression that Desteni is the only group of people in the history of the world ever to have considered equality itself. They seem to be of the view that no group except Desteni discusses the flaws of the prevailing economic system. At his blog, 'Equality can be a reality - Socio-economic perspective on practical equality available through an Equal Money System', Larys Kaziukonis writes in 2012: Flaws in the design of our economic system - unemployment:

This might be just a first part of a series of blogs about the flaws in the very design of the economic system (we’ll see about that in the future). I find it relevant to write about it, because I notice that flaws that are in the very design of the system, are not tackled, challenged, discussed, and because of that they are not being properly understood or considered. Those things seems to be perceived and accepted as ‘beyond’ change, and seems to be forgotten, even though they are present and influence our lives everyday, constantly.

If indeed Destonians are tackling the issues of equality or inequality, then one might expect them to be reading the latest books on the subject and discussing them in earnest. However, at the Introduction to Desteni forum, under the heading of Music, Documentaries, Books for Equality there are no discussions about books, not even their own.

At their Equal Money System forum under Book Reviews & Recommended Reading there is some cut and pasted information about a very few books, but no discussion. There is a Recommended Reading List but again, no discussion about its contents.

Thousands of new books that are in favour of equality are being published all the time. It would seem reasonable that Desteni might try to forge alliances with the people writing them, but they don't.

Destonians say that challenging inequality or capitalism by taking part in any protest, charity or activism is useless. Instead they want people to flood the Internet with blogs and videos denouncing capitalism and promoting Desteni, which is a for-profit capitalist business. Even though they say that that protesting on the streets against capitalism achieves nothing, they appear to be of the view that protesting against capitalism on the Internet does achieve something.

As everyone knows, there are numerous political parties, individuals and groups that campaign for equal rights, and represent equality as a principle. The only such organisation Desteni appears to support is the Basic Income Grant Coalition, even though that campaign involves activism, to which they are opposed, and as far as we can tell, none of them are involved in it.

Destonians suggest that the only possible way forward for equality is by supporting their political party, 'Equal Life Party', but 'Equal Life Party' does not actually exist and there is no evidence that they are forming any such political party. They are more preoccupied with publishing affirmations or confessions in the form of sentences beginning, 'I forgive myself for accepting and allowing myself to...' -- a practice they call 'self-forgiveness'. This is what they see as a key factor in bringing about world equality.

In one of his speeches, How Does Self-Forgiveness Work, and How Do I Know When My Self-Forgiveness Is Effective? Desteni founding member, Bernard Poolman says:

If you are focusing your attention on helping humans, you are missing the point. The point is to establish a system of equality that place the humans in the point where they will not abuse the plants and the animals, which is equal money. Equal money is not there to help the human. The human is in essence really something that cannot be trusted and must be eradicated at all costs.

Destonians' version of equality involves regarding other human beings as brainwashed, demon-possessed organic robots that need to use 'tools' of 'self-purification' and 'self-forgiveness'.

Desteni does not, as might be imagined, represent a humanitarian philosophy, and although their references to 'equality' could suggest that they have an egalitarian social and political message, in the fields of social justice, economics, politics, political philosophy or human rights the Desteni version of 'equality' would not ever be taken seriously. Their general ideas as communicated in, for example, the video quoted above or others such as Desteni Secrets Revealed would to most people not make any rational sense. More specifically, their ideas about equality either bear no relation to it or they contradict the meaning and use of the word as it pertains to social issues or political philosophy.

Their 'equal money system' new age of 'equality and oneness' is inspired by channellings, or as they prefer to call them, 'interdimensional portal messages'. Desteni are more akin to similar such groups, like the Imzaia Movement or Share International than to any social or political movement for equality. However, unlike these groups, Desteni have an extremely limited and obscure way of promoting their ideas, where they do not hold public meetings, they confine their activities to the Internet and invite only a few select members to their farm.

Being a Destonian and supporting 'equal money system' is about regarding Desteni as the only worthwhile group on the planet and modifying personal behaviour by attending to theories and practices to do with reptilians, being a portal, 'heaven on earth', Atlanteans, Destonians having sex with one another, channeling, astral projection, interdimensional contact with dead people, 'self-forgiveness', demon possession, 'mind consciousness systems', deprogramming oneself from Annunaki mind control, etc. As well as becoming 'equal' to inert physical objects.

There is of course a case for saying that everyone on the planet has a basic human right to equality, to food, clothing, shelter and a guaranteed income, but the Desteni equal money system is not it.

Eqafe Blues

XfinksX

Hello there Destonians. How is the self-writing and breathing exercises going? Has Big Brother Poolman spouted out any new helpful nonsense? How is the Eqafe business going? It must be hard bearing the burden of working against capitalism while allowing it on the inside. But wait!? Eqafe has an affiliate program you say which helps support fellow Destonians? You can pick a Destonian to receive a percentage of the sales money before the rest goes into the black hole of Calcutta? Wow! That's great. I'll check it out.

Oh wait ...no! It still sucks. So I went to Eqafe from the Desteni site. I was curious so I clicked on one of the products as if I was actually going to buy it. After clicking on the "Add to cart" button, I was presented with a new page of a bunch of Destonians to click on. It seems if the Destonian had bought the product before he or she would appear on the list and could potentially benefit from the sale. However, after doing this several times, I began to notice certain people kept appearing again and again. Interestingly, the overall majority of the people who keep appearing on this special bubble head list all live at the Desteni Farm. Did all of these people actually purchase the product in order to get it in their inventories too? Hmmm ...I'm beginning to smell a rat.

So then, I actually decided to do a random sampling to see how often these people kept popping up. Using a random method I pulled 30 samples which is about 10% of the 300 products listed (at the time of this writing). Out of the 17 individuals who appeared again and again, 12 (70%) of them live at the Desteni Farm. And I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that Big Brother Poolman just happens to live at the farm too. Also, he doesn't seem to take any interest in what the other Destonians do. Meh ...why should he? He's got a business to run and worrying about flakes is not his priority. It should also be noted that Matti Freeman and Darryl W Thomas don't live at the farm but are closely tied to it. Surprisingly Darryl is the only inner circle member who doesn't seem to have a monopoly on the Eqafe products. I guess he was too busy playing word salad or bitching about something to stock up.

So once again, Desteni's leadership demonstrates how they are one and equal in action. Wouldn't it actually be equal if all members who were affiliates benefited equally? Why is that Desteni demands the world support them unconditionally but they don't even do it amongst their own ranks? Why do the members continue to excuse this unequal behavior?

I guess words are just more powerful than actions in Desteni. But it has been this way for a while hasn't it? And I suppose if it has been justified a thousand times already, I guess ignoring it is the right thing to do. Because I'm sure Poolman and company are going to properly do research into equality and stuff with no intentions of taking the money and running when the time is right. I sure am glad Desteni's rank and file members have such a thoughtful, caring, and wonderful Big Brother. They'll never have to feel like a sucker being taken for a ride.

Cults Using Facebook

Chalk Talk Toons

If your taste in religion or spirituality tends to lean toward the more unconventional side, or if perhaps you’ve misplaced an impressionable, quasi-delusional uncle over the holidays who is likely to get wrapped up in one cult or another, you may be interested in gathering a list of the cults making their presence known in social media so that you know exactly what it is that you’re up against. Hang in there, Uncle Elwood, help is on the way. Here’s a list of ten examples of cults using Facebook...

Read more: 10 examples of Cults Using Facebook

See also: Desteni abuse Facebook's Rights & Responsibilities

Response to LLCraver on the Real Equal Money System

XfinksX
(as posted at the Cult Education Forum)

Hunter-gatherers

LLCraver on the Real EMS:

which is in regards to the absurdity of using such words as ‘level of equality’ in one statement, as commonsensically, that does not mathematically compute. Why? Because equality does not have ‘levels’ but is absolute in expression – equal is equal, simple as that – a mathematical equation cannot have ‘different levels of answers’ to the equation. No – that which is on either side of the = must be equal (ex: 1+1=2, 2=2). (http://equalmoney.org/2012/03/response-to-desteni-cult-blog-the-real-equal-money-system)

I’m sorry Miss Craver but there are degrees of equality in societies – even your run of the mill anthropologist will acknowledge this. Now, if you’re saying that equality doesn’t exist unless it fits into the perfect ideal you have, then that is your viewpoint. I think most people will agree that there is a difference in equality from a society like Ancient Rome and one such as the modern USA. Also, societies are complex creatures. You can’t just plug in 1+1 and expect it to work like you want it. This is why social sciences are considered soft and why physical sciences are considered hard or rather precise.

The argument that there was at some point ‘Egalitarian societies’ is simply not true, and even ‘xfinksx’ noted this when he stated: “While not all Hunter Gatherer and Tribal societies were thoroughly egalitarian…” – yeah, however – not only were ‘not all Hunter Gatherer and Tribal societies thoroughly egalitarian’ – but NONE of them were.

Miss Craver, my point is that those primitive societies approach a level of equality in practice that outshines most other societies including Desteni which is a top down organization. Just look at which direction most of the money flows in your group – which is described in the EMS overview with the funny little potatohead pictures on the Desteni iProcess site. Who is at the center? It isn’t you nor Spamann. I’ll give you hint: It is at the farm. But, what was wrong with those societies in the past that didn’t make them truly equal? Well for the most part, this was the problem:

http://www.mesacc.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/glues/societyintro.html

Quote:

Egalitarian societal members tend to treat each other as equals. Wealth differences are few as is the amount of power available to any individual or group. The people possess norms that emphasize sharing and ideals of interpersonal equality. This is not to say that stratification is non-existent in these societies. In comparison with nonegalitarian societies, however, stratification is relatively insignificant. Even when someone like a bigman is present, prestige is important and linked to redistribution. However, the bigman gives more than he receives as his role as a redistributor is defined. If he hordes or possesses too much, he will lose the recognition as a bigman. In effect, he is a member of society as an equal who has a defined role that carries prestige but not wealth and recognition but not status.

Now, who at the Desteni farm acts like a Big Man in regards to wealth? Somehow I think he gets more than he gives back. Therefore, the Big Men in those primitive societies are way cooler than Mr. Monster Mash.

Talk about ‘vagueness’ – here, ‘xfinksx’ is making elusive statements, basically punching at the air, with no substance or insight into what he is in fact expressing. He basically is making a statement with no practical significance, as it shows no point of understanding or moreover offers no solution to the problem of inequality.

You know it looks like you just want to call what I’m saying as vague because you’re pissed off that I called your sparkly little meme-toy vague. But whatever, It isn’t vague Miss Craver. It is called ownership of resources. The person or people who own the resources dictate the laws and thereby how wealth is acquired and maintained. You can have all the money you want, but money has no real power by itself. Implementing your EMS will not change where certain resources are located nor would it stop people from trying to horde possessions (here’s a secret: people don’t just horde things for reasons of scarcity). Never will everyone on earth agree to become Desteni tool slave willingly. And unless everyone isn’t mind controlled your EMS won’t ever work period! Now as for solutions and potential realistic alternatives, they are out there – you just don’t bother to look or take the time to understand them. But, they have nothing to do with Desteni pipe dreams, money schemes, self-writing, self-forgiveness, talking to the dead, or ignoring the BS claim that Desteni messages came from some supernatural source.

Desteni Portal Idiot Test

Ivan Rauscher

Desteni claims Sunette Spies can speak on behalf of dead people, inanimate objects or mythological or fictional entities or qualities, making her an 'interdimensional portal'.

The Portal is one of the central concepts 'within and as' Desteni. The Equal Money System revolves around Sunette Spies 'within and as' interdimensional portal.

Spies speaks as the Mesopotamian god, Anu, Colonel Gaddaffi, Adolf Hitler, an AK-47 rifle, a leprachaun, Joseph Stalin, Carl Jung, Kurt Cobain, Aleister Crowley, designs like the Design of Who I am as a Reptilian Mind, and a panty liner, a petrol pump and a piece of toilet paper.

Most people would of course just laugh and reject the Portal as a stupid prank, or a cheap and pathetic New Age con or perhaps the ramblings of one who is possessed or severely mentally disturbed.

Whatever, the purpose of the Portal is to bring together the right kind of people who will be willing to dedicate their lives to being salespersons for the Desteni business.

The Desteni Portal is an Idiot Test.

Anyone willing to believe a lie like the Desteni Portal will practically believe anything they're told. It's a way to vet the audience, flush out critical thinkers or dissenters and find instead more useful people who can be more easily manipulated.

Desteni does not ask that anyone should believe in the Portal. What's important is the Portal's message of self-honesty. So, a potential recruit can be relieved of the obligation to believe and s/he may accept and allow information from the Portal to be acted upon anyway.

Whether or not s/he believes in the Portal, as long as clichéd New Age self-help techniques, self-forgiveness affirmations, stress reduction breathing exercises, ways of giving up addictions etc offered by the Portal have some appeal they may also have the effect of making the potential recruit feel good.

If s/he has been lonely, confused or troubled they may find the Desteni organisation can help them make progress and new social contacts. They may also gain a sense of importance and a renewed enthusiasm for life, having taken on a special mission to save themselves and everyone else on the planet from destruction with the Equal Money System.

They will have passed the Desteni Portal Idiot Test. 

De$teni Fabrications

Twitter Outside the Dimensions @destenifab

De$teni Fabrications!

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Desteni clique incest

Mass production of sex-oriented media was recently increased in the Land of Destonia in a bid to get signed 'agreements' for sexual relations between Destonians.

From Destenigossip:

Sex in general is evil, there is only one way for it not to be evil:

First: Beat yourself up about having, enjoying or thinking about sex or, if that’s not the case, about NOT having, enjoying or thinking about it.

Second: Go to the Desteni-Forum and post all your most private thoughts and experiences there, for the whole world (including your family, friends and future employers) to see and for Bernie to jerk off to.

Third: Buy an overpriced course done by Desteni where you can hear the ‘portal’ talk about Reptilian-Sex, Rape and other kinky stuff.

Fourth: Find a fellow Desteni-member to fuck.

Fifth: Fuck that fellow Desteni-member, especially when and if you don’t actually find them attractive.

Sixth: Go to the forum again and tell all the world and Bernie about your new Desteni sex life as detailed as possible, so the others and especially Bernie can approve of it.

And then you have a chance of not being a rapist or some other type of scum. Though, not really, Desteni will find something else you have to be ashamed of, but all is not lost, they will offer you a new class for 300 bucks a month to purify yourself from that new problem as well.

Read more: Desteni - a peculiar fetish for masochists